Sparta Crete and Lycurgus

Use in the book

The companion first answers the question about the oldest Greek laws by proposing the Lacedaemonians and Lycurgus (318c). Socrates does not deny that Lycurgus is a lawgiver. He challenges the claim of greatest antiquity, giving the deliberately loose estimate “not yet three hundred years, perhaps, or a little more.” The language is unsuitable as a precise date for either the dialogue's composition or its dramatic setting.

Socrates then changes the question from age alone to origin: where did the best Spartan usages come from? The companion answers, by report, from Crete (318c–d). The result establishes the route to Minos and Rhadamanthys. The best Spartan laws are presented as derivative; Crete provides the older source to be examined.

The relation returns in the interpretation of Minos' association with Zeus (320a–b2). Cretans, followed by Lacedaemonians who learned from them, are described as abstaining from drinking parties and the wine-related play in question. Minos' specific law forbids drinking together to the point of drunkenness. Socrates uses this practice to reject the interpretation of Zeus' confidant as a drinking-companion, and then says that Crete and Lacedaemon have prospered through the divine laws. The relation between the communities thus serves both the narrative of legal transmission and an argument about the lawgiver's character.

The source of a custom and its correctness remain different questions. The earlier craft argument rejected ethnic boundaries as the basis of knowledge, while this passage names a particular line of transmission. Nothing requires the reader to turn Cretan origin by itself into proof of truth. Socrates' fuller case adds the claimed education of Minos and the persistence of his laws.

Places to read

1. 318cΛακεδαιμονίους λέγεις καὶ Λυκοῦργον τὸν νομοθέτην — The companion proposes a people and their named lawgiver
2. 318cοὐδέπω ἴσως ἔτη τριακόσια ἢ ὀλίγῳ τούτων πλείω — The estimate remains explicitly approximate
3. 318c–dτούτων τῶν νομίμων τὰ βέλτιστα πόθεν ἥκει — The inquiry shifts to the origin of the best usages
4. 318dΦασί γε ἐκ Κρήτης — Cretan origin is given as what people say
5. 320aΛακεδαιμόνιοι δεύτεροι, μαθόντες παρὰ Κρητῶν — Sparta follows Crete by learning the relevant practice
6. 320bἥ τε Κρήτη τὸν πάντα χρόνον εὐδαιμονεῖ καὶ Λακεδαίμων — Socrates attributes the communities' happiness to the laws

Translation in this edition

The translation retains “Lacedaemonians” in the spoken text and identifies Sparta in explanatory material. Its note points to Herodotus 1.65 and Aristotle, Politics 2.10, 1271b for the tradition of Cretan legal origins, and to Plutarch, Lycurgus 1 for the disputed chronology. These are the edition's background references, not independent dates established by this lexicon.

Come from — ἥκειν (hēkein)

ἥκειν (hēkein)

Come from. To have arrived or come; in the question about the source of the best Spartan lawful usages, it concerns their provenance. Attested: ἥκει (318d). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Cretans — Κρής (Krēs)

Κρής (Krēs)

Cretans. The people from whom the Lacedaemonians are said to have learned the relevant abstention from drinking parties. Attested: Κρητῶν (320a). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Crete — Κρήτη (Krētē)

Κρήτη (Krētē)

Crete. The island from which, according to the companion’s report, the best Spartan lawful usages came. Attested: Κρήτης (318d). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Lacedaemon — Λακεδαίμων (Lakedaimōn)

Λακεδαίμων (Lakedaimōn)

Lacedaemon. Sparta, said to have been happy since beginning to use the Cretan laws. The claim belongs to Socrates’ praise of those laws. Attested: Λακεδαίμων (320b). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Lacedaemonians — Λακεδαιμόνιος (Lakedaimonios)

Λακεδαιμόνιος (Lakedaimonios)

Lacedaemonians. The Spartans, proposed by the companion as the people using the oldest Greek laws before Socrates traces their best usages to Crete. Attested: Λακεδαιμονίους (318c). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Lycurgus — Λυκοῦργος (Lykourgos)

Λυκοῦργος (Lykourgos)

Lycurgus. The Spartan lawgiver named by the companion. The approximate estimate of his laws’ age supplies no secure dramatic date. Attested: Λυκοῦργον (318c). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Following second — δεύτερος (deuteros)

δεύτερος (deuteros)

Following second. The Lacedaemonians follow the Cretans in the drinking practice, having learned it from them; the ordering concerns transmission, not a claim of second-best moral worth. Attested: δεύτεροι (320a). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Three hundred — τριακόσιοι (triakosioi)

τριακόσιοι (triakosioi)

Three hundred. The approximate number of years mentioned for the Spartan arrangements. “Perhaps” and the allowance of a little more prohibit treating it as an exact chronological anchor. Attested: τριακόσια (318c). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.

Years — ἔτος (etos)

ἔτος (etos)

Years. Units of elapsed time in the loose estimate that the Spartan arrangements are perhaps not yet three hundred years old or slightly more. Attested: ἔτη (318c). Sparta Crete and Lycurgus.