Variation of customs and the companion's objection

Use in the book

The objection begins from a consequence of Socrates' formula, not from an isolated attachment to conventionalism. If law discovers what is, and the things that are have been discovered, why do people not use the same laws about the same things? (315a). The companion is pressing the relation between successful discovery and stable practice. Socrates replies that law's aim remains stable while people can fail to discover it.

The companion then develops his case in a carefully narrowing sequence. Carthaginian human sacrifice differs from Athenian practice; Greek sacrifices in Lycaea and among Athamas' descendants show that difference crosses more than the Greek/non-Greek boundary; earlier Athenian funeral customs differ from the present practices of the same people. The argument has spatial, cultural, and temporal dimensions. Each stage makes the phenomenon harder to explain away as merely somebody else's strangeness.

He describes these as laws and accepted customs in the ordinary sense in which a community recognizes and follows them. Socrates increasingly reserves genuine law for what is right. The debate is thus partly about the extension of the word nomos: should every recognized practice count, or only successful apprehensions of what is? Calling the companion a moral relativist without qualification would obscure this narrower and stronger contribution. He establishes or assumes diversity; he does not explicitly prove that there can be no objective answer about the practices.

Socrates responds in two stages. First he seeks common judgments about just, heavy, and fine things, moving from disputed cases to formulations the companion will accept. The companion remains unpersuaded. The crafts then provide a restricted class of authoritative judges: those who know. Their agreement is said to extend across Greeks and barbarians and across time (316d). The second response no longer depends simply on everybody's actual opinions coinciding.

Neither response supplies a direct judgment on the sacrifices or domestic burials. The historical examples disappear from the discussion except for the renewed place names in the weight questions. This is a genuine feature of the work: the later normative distinction may be read as answering why different practices need not all be true laws, while leaving the companion's concrete cases unresolved.

Places to read

1. 315aεἰ τὰ ὄντα γε ἡμῖν ἐξηύρηται — The objection assumes successful discovery and tests its consequences
2. 315bεἴτε τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἀεὶ νόμοις χρώμεθα ἢ ἄλλοτε ἄλλοις — Socrates explicitly frames temporal variation
3. 315bκαὶ εἰ ἅπαντες τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἢ ἄλλοι ἄλλοις — He also frames difference among people
4. 315cβάρβαροι ἄνθρωποι; Ἕλληνες ὄντες — The companion refuses to confine the examples to non-Greeks
5. 315dπολλὴ γὰρ εὐρυχωρία τῆς ἀποδείξεως — His claim of abundant room for proof
6. 315dοὔτε ἡμεῖς ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς ἀεὶ κατὰ ταὐτὰ νομίζομεν οὔτε ἀλλήλοις οἱ ἄνθρωποι — The combined temporal and interpersonal conclusion
7. 316dκαὶ Ἕλληνας καὶ βαρβάρους — The later knowledge-based agreement crosses the same cultural division

Translation in this edition

“Barbarian” carries the ancient Greek classification, not an editorial judgment that the people are uncivilized. The edition reports ancient parallels in its notes while preserving the dialogue's attribution of the examples to the companion. Its introduction explicitly asks whether Socrates answers those cases or sets them aside.

Ample room — εὐρυχωρία (eurychōria)

εὐρυχωρία (eurychōria)

Ample room. The abundance of material the companion claims for proving variation of customs. Attested: εὐρυχωρία (315d). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Countless things — μυρίος (myrios)

μυρίος (myrios)

Countless things. The companion claims that many further examples of variable practice could be given; not an exact count of ten thousand. Attested: μυρία (315d). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Different ones at different times — ἄλλοτε ἄλλοις (allote allois)

ἄλλοτε ἄλλοις (allote allois)

Different ones at different times. Temporal variation in the laws used by people. Attested: ἄλλοτε ἄλλοις (315b). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Different people different ones — ἄλλοι ἄλλοις (alloi allois)

ἄλλοι ἄλλοις (alloi allois)

Different people different ones. Variation of laws from one community or group to another. Attested: ἄλλοι ἄλλοις (315b). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Greeks — Ἕλλην (Hellēn)

Ἕλλην (Hellēn)

Greeks. The identity of the Lycaean and Athamas examples that blocks reducing the difference to Greeks versus non-Greeks. Attested: Ἕλληνες (315c). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Hard or difficult — χαλεπός (chalepos)

χαλεπός (chalepos)

Hard or difficult. The companion denies that knowing about variation of laws is difficult; this is not the later harshness attributed to Minos. Attested: χαλεπὸν (315b). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Know or recognize — γιγνώσκειν (gignōskein)

γιγνώσκειν (gignōskein)

Know or recognize. Recognize that the same people change laws and different people have different ones. Attested: γνῶναι (315b). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Laws or accepted customs — νόμος (nomos)

νόμος (nomos)

Laws or accepted customs. The practices different peoples use and the same people change over time in the companion's objection. Attested: νόμοις (315b). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Non-Greek or barbarian peoples — βάρβαρος (barbaros)

βάρβαρος (barbaros)

Non-Greek or barbarian peoples. The Greek cultural category that the companion says does not exhaust legal difference. Attested: βάρβαροι (315c). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Persians — Πέρσης (Persēs)

Πέρσης (Persēs)

Persians. A specifically named non-Greek people in the question about whether just things are accepted as just; the reply is supplied in the printed text, but the name also occurs in Socrates' transmitted question. Attested: Πέρσαις (316a). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Proof — ἀπόδειξις (apodeixis)

ἀπόδειξις (apodeixis)

Proof. The companion's name for the demonstration supplied by many examples of variation. Attested: ἀποδείξεως (315d). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Use — χρῆσθαι (chrēsthai)

χρῆσθαι (chrēsthai)

Use. Use laws about the same matters, the practical behavior whose variation the companion invokes. Attested: χρώμεθα (315a). Variation of customs and the companion's objection.

Not only foreign peoples (contextual phrase)

315c: καὶ μὴ ὅτι βάρβαροι ἄνθρωποι … ἀλλὰ καὶ. The idiom expands the evidence from non-Greek peoples to Greeks themselves. Lycaea and the descendants of Athamas are not accidental ornament: they block a simple explanation of difference as foreignness. The point then turns inward again to earlier Athenian funeral usages. See Variation in customs.