Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative

Use in the book

Theages objects that statesmen cannot pass on their wisdom even to their sons. Socrates asks him to imagine having a son of his own who wants to become a good painter, demands expenditure, and nevertheless slights the painters from whom he would learn (126d–e). Flute-players and cithara-players extend the case. Theages admits that he would not know what else to do or where to send such a boy. Socrates then applies the case to Demodocus' predicament (127a).

The point is the difficulty of responsible referral when the prospective pupil rejects the practitioners. It vindicates something about the father's position without fully answering the son's objection. If doing politics and teaching politics differ, the craft analogy still needs justification in the contested case. Theages' next move is accordingly to name an alternative: Socrates himself. The exchange changes the practical question from an indefinite search to a particular relationship.

The painting example is not evidence that Theages has actually asked to be a painter; it is counterfactual. Nor does it establish that he despises all manual or musical work. Socrates borrows familiar kinds of instruction to make him occupy the parental role he has been criticizing. That reversal is as important as the list of occupations.

Places to read

1. 126eἀγαθὸς γενέσθαι ζωγράφος — The hypothetical son wants to become a good painter
2. 126eτοὺς ζωγράφους, ἀτιμάζοι — He nevertheless slights the practitioners
3. 126eτοὺς αὐλητάς … τοὺς κιθαριστάς — Two musical practices extend the comparison
4. 127aεἰ ἀπορεῖ ὅτι σοι χρήσηται καὶ ὅποι πέμποι — The father's perplexity is practical: what to do and where to send him

Translation in this edition

“Flute-player” is the supplied rendering of aulētēs; it should not be taken as an organological identification with the modern transverse flute. “At a loss” preserves the situational force of aporei. The text does not declare the dialogue's final outcome an abstract theory of aporia.

Be at a loss — ἀπορεῖν (aporein)

ἀπορεῖν (aporein)

Be at a loss. Demodocus' difficulty about what to do with his son and where to send him; a practical predicament. Attested: ἀπορεῖ (127a). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.

Blame — μέμφεσθαι (memphesthai) · μέμφῃ (127a).

μέμφεσθαι (memphesthai)

Blame. The son's reproach to his father, which the hypothetical-parent example asks him to reconsider. Attested: μέμφῃ (127a). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.

Cithara players — κιθαριστής (kitharistēs)

κιθαριστής (kitharistēs)

Cithara players. Practitioners of the musical skill in Socrates' extension of the painter comparison. Attested: κιθαριστάς (126e). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.

Flute players — αὐλητής (aulētēs)

αὐλητής (aulētēs)

Flute players. Players of the aulos, another obvious source of the corresponding instruction; “flute” follows the supplied translation. Attested: αὐλητάς (126e). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.

Painter — ζωγράφος (zōgraphos)

ζωγράφος (zōgraphos)

Painter. The skill the hypothetical son wants while rejecting the relevant practitioners. Attested: ζωγράφος (126e). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.

Slight — ἀτιμάζειν (atimazein)

ἀτιμάζειν (atimazein)

Slight. Disregard or dishonor the practitioners from whom the hypothetical pupil would learn. Attested: ἀτιμάζοι (126e). Painters flute players and the problem of an alternative.