Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician

Use in the book

Socrates asks his companion to name a good lawgiver of old in flute music (318b). When the companion does not immediately supply a name, Socrates offers to remind him and gives Marsyas together with Olympus. The question and its answer are framed as received report: “is it Marsyas, then, as is said.” The dialogue does not narrate their lives or establish their historical dates.

The pair's role depends on their tunes. These are called the most divine, able uniquely to move and reveal those in need of the gods, and still surviving as divine (318b–c). The emphasis lies on a tradition's effective presence, not merely on its inventor's fame. The example immediately prepares the question about a king of old whose lawful usages remain.

“The Phrygian” is worth retaining. Earlier actual knowledge was said to agree among Greeks and barbarians (316d). The musical model now includes a named figure identified by a non-Greek place of origin. The text does not make an explicit argument from Olympus' ethnicity, but it would be misleading to present its expertise as restricted to Greek practitioners. Shortly afterward the search for oldest political laws is expressly limited to “among the Greeks” (318c–d).

The edition's note identifies Marsyas as the satyr who challenged Apollo, and Olympus as his pupil and beloved, associated with flute-tunes still played in classical times. These identifications supply background rather than additional events spoken here. In particular, the punishment of Marsyas is not narrated in the Minos, and it should not be imported as an unmentioned moral of the example. The operative claim is the divine force and endurance of the tunes.

Places to read

1. 318bἀλλ’ ἐγὼ βούλει σε ὑπομνήσω — Socrates offers a reminder rather than assuming the companion's ready knowledge
2. 318bὁ Μαρσύας λέγεται — Marsyas is introduced through what is said
3. 318bτὰ παιδικὰ αὐτοῦ Ὄλυμπος ὁ Φρύξ — Olympus is identified as beloved and Phrygian
4. 318bΤούτων δὴ καὶ τὰ αὐλήματα θειότατά ἐστι — Their tunes, rather than a narrated biography, supply the evidence that matters

Translation in this edition

The translation uses the conventional English “Olympus,” while the transliteration Olympos follows the Greek. “His beloved” accurately gives the personal reference of paidika. The note compares the account of the tunes in Symposium 215c and the mention of Olympus in Aristotle's Politics 8.5, 1340a; those parallels are supplied background, not quotations newly spoken in this dialogue.

Beloved — παιδικά (paidika)

παιδικά (paidika)

Beloved. A substantival neuter plural naming one beloved person, Olympus in relation to Marsyas. It is not the noun for play used later. Attested: παιδικὰ (318b). Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician.

Marsyas — Μαρσύας (Marsyas)

Μαρσύας (Marsyas)

Marsyas. The legendary musician named as an old good lawgiver in flute music, with Olympus. His contest with Apollo belongs to background, not to the narrated action here. Attested: Μαρσύας (318b). Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician.

Olympus — Ὄλυμπος (Olympos)

Ὄλυμπος (Olympos)

Olympus. The Phrygian musician named as Marsyas’ beloved and associated with the enduring divine flute-tunes. Attested: Ὄλυμπος (318b). Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician.

Phrygian — Φρύξ (Phryx)

Φρύξ (Phryx)

Phrygian. The geographical or ethnic designation identifying Olympus. It prevents the example from being silently treated as exclusively Greek. Attested: Φρύξ (318b). Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician.

Remind — ὑπομιμνῄσκειν (hypomimnēskein)

ὑπομιμνῄσκειν (hypomimnēskein)

Remind. To bring something to another’s recollection; Socrates offers to supply the ancient musical example when the companion does not think of it. Attested: ὑπομνήσω (318b). Marsyas Olympus and the Phrygian musician.