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Facing Pages · Branch 23 of 44
Charmides · 164a–164d
Ancient Greek
p. 36δημιουργοὺς οὐδὲν κωλύει καὶ αὖ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων ποιοῦντας σωφρονεῖν;
Ἐλέγετο γάρ, ἔφη· ἀλλὰ τί τοῦτο;
Οὐδέν· ἀλλὰ λέγε εἰ δοκεῖ τίς σοι ἰατρός, ὑγιᾶ τινα 164b ποιῶν, ὠφέλιμα καὶ ἑαυτῷ ποιεῖν καὶ ἐκείνῳ ὃν ἰῷτο;
Ἔμοιγε.
Οὐκοῦν τὰ δέοντα πράττει ὅ γε ταῦτα πράττων;
Ναί.
Ὁ τὰ δέοντα πράττων οὐ σωφρονεῖ;
Σωφρονεῖ μὲν οὖν.
Ἦ οὖν καὶ γιγνώσκειν ἀνάγκη τῷ ἰατρῷ ὅταν τε ὠφελίμως ἰᾶται καὶ ὅταν μή; καὶ ἑκάστῳ τῶν δημιουργῶν ὅταν τε μέλλῃ ὀνήσεσθαι ἀπὸ τοῦ ἔργου οὗ ἂν πράττῃ καὶ ὅταν μή;
Ἴσως οὔ.
Ἐνίοτε ἄρα, ἦν δ’ ἐγώ, ὠφελίμως πράξας ἢ βλαβερῶς ὁ 164c ἰατρὸς οὐ γιγνώσκει ἑαυτὸν ὡς ἔπραξεν· καίτοι ὠφελίμως πράξας, ὡς ὁ σὸς λόγος, σωφρόνως ἔπραξεν. ἢ οὐχ οὕτως ἔλεγες;
Ἔγωγε.
Οὐκοῦν, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἐνίοτε ὠφελίμως πράξας πράττει μὲν σωφρόνως καὶ σωφρονεῖ, ἀγνοεῖ δ’ ἑαυτὸν ὅτι σωφρονεῖ;
Ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μέν, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο, ἀλλ’ εἴ τι σὺ οἴει ἐκ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν ὑπ’ ἐμοῦ ὡμολογημένων εἰς τοῦτο ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι συμβαίνειν, ἐκείνων ἄν τι ἔγωγε 164d μᾶλλον ἀναθείμην, καὶ οὐκ ἂν αἰσχυνθείην μὴ οὐχὶ ὀρθῶς φάναι εἰρηκέναι, μᾶλλον ἤ ποτε συγχωρήσαιμ’ ἂν ἀγνοοῦντα αὐτὸν ἑαυτὸν ἄνθρωπον σωφρονεῖν. σχεδὸν γάρ τι ἔγωγε αὐτὸ τοῦτό φημι εἶναι σωφροσύνην, τὸ γιγνώσκειν ἑαυτόν,
Charmides
p. 37there was nothing to stop craftsmen from being temperate even when they make other people’s things?”
“Yes, I was,” he said. “But what of it?”
“Nothing. But tell me whether you think a doctor, in making someone healthy, 164b makes something beneficial both for himself and for the patient he is treating?”
“I do.”
“And the man who does this does what he ought?”
“Yes.”
“And isn’t the man who does what he ought temperate?”
“Temperate indeed.”
“Now must a doctor also know when his treatment is beneficial and when it is not? And must each of the craftsmen know when he is going to profit from the work he is doing, and when he is not?”
“Perhaps not.”
“Then sometimes,” I said, “the doctor, having acted beneficially or harmfully, 164c does not know himself — how he has acted.1 And yet, having acted beneficially, he acted temperately, by your account. Or wasn’t that what you said?”
“It was.”
“Then it seems that sometimes, having acted beneficially, he acts temperately and is temperate, but does not know himself — that he is temperate?”
“But that, Socrates,” he said, “could never happen. If you think that this necessarily follows from anything I agreed to earlier, I would sooner 164d take back some of it, and not be ashamed to say I had spoken wrongly, than ever concede that a man who does not know himself is temperate. In fact I would almost say that this very thing is temperance, knowing oneself,
Socrates
Reading Charmides · Charmides · 164a–164d
Ask about a concept, passage, contradiction, or connection.
Socrates will begin with this book and its sources.About This Reading Edition
Socrates, Charmides, and Critias examine temperance, self-knowledge, and the knowledge of knowledge. The complete dialogue appears in Ancient Greek and English, aligned by the supplied edition’s facing pages and Stephanus references.
Historical Text and Translation
Greek: Plato, Charmides, in J. Burnet, ed., Platonis Opera, volume III (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903), transcribed by the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University. The supplied edition omits words marked for deletion, retains supplied words, lightly normalizes punctuation and paragraphing, and removes a stray digital numeral at 163c. The digital Greek transcription and its modifications are provided under CC BY-SA 4.0, with attribution to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University.
About Diotimos Editions
Diotimos Editions prepared this independently worded English translation in house. It aims for clear, measured English while preserving Plato’s conversational rhythm, philosophical distinctions, and the unfolding give-and-take of Socratic inquiry.
Rights
Plato's Greek source work is in the public domain. The 2026 English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are original to this edition and remain © 2026 Diotimos.