From the book
The Lovers
Plato · Diotimos Editions · 2026
Browse this book’s lexicon →Prattling and talking nonsense
ἀδολεσχεῖν (adoleschein); φλυαρεῖν (phlyarein)
Adoleschein means to prattle, to engage in talk dismissed as idle or excessively minute.
Orientation
At a Glance
- The wordAdoleschein means to prattle, to engage in talk dismissed as idle or excessively minute.
- In The LoversThe first philosophical issue grows out of this careless-looking dismissal.
- In this editionThe edition’s note links adoleschein and talk of the heavens with the vocabulary of comedy, citing Clouds 1480 and 1485 and the Phaedo’s denial that even a comic poet could accuse Socrates of prattling at 70b–c. These parallels explain a recognizable tone, not a proof of direct borrowing.
- A place to readἀδολεσχοῦσι μὲν οὖν οὗτοί γε — The athlete characterizes the lads’ earnest conversation as prattle.
Meaning
Adoleschein means to prattle, to engage in talk dismissed as idle or excessively minute. Phlyarein means to talk nonsense or chatter foolishly. These infinitives are dictionary forms; the opening prints the finite plurals adoleschousi and phlyarousi, “they prattle” and “they talk nonsense.” The verbs evaluate the quality or worth of speech, rather than merely recording that people converse.
The two verbs need not name two separate activities. The athlete piles them onto one scene, while “philosophizing” tells how he classifies what the boys are doing. His contempt is stronger than an admission that he cannot follow their discussion. It announces that the pursuit is beneath respect.
Use in the book
The first philosophical issue grows out of this careless-looking dismissal. Socrates asks whether philosophizing is shameful and why the lover speaks so harshly. His rival then tries to discredit the athlete through a story about eating, sleeping, and wrestling. At that stage neither opponent has explained philosophy: one condemns a caricature and the other defends a badge of culture. Socrates’ later definitional question exposes the lack on both sides.
Prattle is also an important counterpoint to “words and deeds.” The athlete disclaims verbal expertise, but he is capable of a verbally effective and substantively relevant retort about moderate exercise. The cultured lover is fluent, yet his fluent defense of much learning fails. The distinction the scene encourages is therefore not speech against silence, but speech that can answer for itself against speech whose main work is display or abuse.
The ending does not vindicate the initial insult without qualification. Socrates explicitly resists the claim that philosophers are base and useless. What is refuted is a particular account of philosophical accomplishment. Treating “prattle” as the author’s final verdict would miss that rescue and the later positive requirements of judgment.
Places to read
Translation in this edition
The edition’s note links adoleschein and talk of the heavens with the vocabulary of comedy, citing Clouds 1480 and 1485 and the Phaedo’s denial that even a comic poet could accuse Socrates of prattling at 70b–c. These parallels explain a recognizable tone, not a proof of direct borrowing. “Talking nonsense” retains phlyarein as a second dismissive verb; reducing the whole sentence to “they are philosophizing” would lose the provocation that starts the argument.
From the book
Lysis
Plato · Diotimos Editions · 2026
Browse this book’s lexicon →Idle talk
ὕθλος
hythlosHythlos means idle talk; empty chatter.
Orientation
At a Glance
- The wordHythlos means idle talk; empty chatter.
- In LysisSocrates asks whether what they previously called a friend was some ὕθλος, like a long assembled poem.
- Reading contextThe language registers the danger of mistaking an extended verbal construction for an adequate explanation.
- A place to readThe Greek example means “Was some idle talk.”
- English renderings
- Idle talk; empty chatter
Meaning
Idle talk; empty chatter.
Grammatical category: masculine noun.
Use in the book
Socrates asks whether what they previously called a friend was some ὕθλος, like a long assembled poem. The noun supplies a deliberately deflationary description of an account that had briefly appeared successful.
This is a provisional self-criticism within the continuing inquiry, not proof that everything previously discussed was useless. The language registers the danger of mistaking an extended verbal construction for an adequate explanation.
Places to read
- 221dὕθλος τις ἦν — Was some idle talk.