Comparison

Heroic and oratorical counterparts

Βρασίδας (Brasidas); Νέστωρ (Nestōr); Ἀντήνωρ (Antēnōr); Περικλῆς (Periklēs)

The names provide comparative types: a fighter can resemble Achilles, an orator earlier counsellors.

From the book

Symposium

Plato · Diotimos Editions · 2026

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Orientation

At a Glance

  • The wordThe names provide comparative types: a fighter can resemble Achilles, an orator earlier counsellors.
  • In the SymposiumAlcibiades does not deny that other men display courageous or impressive conduct.
  • In this editionThe source notes supply historical and Homeric identifications.
  • A place to readPericles illustrates impressive oratory without the same ethical disturbance.

Meaning

The names provide comparative types: a fighter can resemble Achilles, an orator earlier counsellors. Their function is relational rather than biographical.

Use in the book

Alcibiades does not deny that other men display courageous or impressive conduct. He distinguishes particular achievements from Socrates’ combination of person and speech, for which no human counterpart can be found. The failure of this otherwise workable comparative method sends him back to sileni and satyrs. Pericles’ earlier appearance sharpens the distinction between admired speaking and speech that unsettles the hearer’s life.

Places to read

  1. 215ePericles illustrates impressive oratory without the same ethical disturbance.
  2. 221c–d2Familiar historical-heroic comparisons establish the contrast with Socrates.

Translation in this edition

The source notes supply historical and Homeric identifications. The argument here requires only the text’s pairings, not a claim that the figures are identical in all virtues or political aims.

Ἀντήνωρ (Antēnōr)

Antēnōr — Another Homeric counsellor paired with Pericles in the comparison.

  • 221c — Ἀντήνορα. He joins Nestor as a recognisable oratorical counterpart.

Read: Heroic and oratorical counterparts.

Βρασίδας (Brasidas)

Brasidas — A named example of a man who can be compared with Achilles.

  • 221c — Βρασίδαν. Alcibiades contrasts an available heroic comparison with Socrates’ singularity.

Read: Heroic and oratorical counterparts.

Νέστωρ (Nestōr)

Nestōr — A Homeric counsellor used as a counterpart for Pericles.

  • 221c — Νέστορα. The comparison belongs to familiar excellence in speech.

Read: Heroic and oratorical counterparts.

Περικλῆς (Periklēs)

Periklēs — The orator whom Alcibiades has heard and can match with earlier speakers.

  • 215e — Περικλέους. His speeches impressed Alcibiades without Socrates’ disturbing effect.
  • 221c — Περικλῆς. Pericles admits heroic counterparts where Socrates allegedly does not.

Read: Heroic and oratorical counterparts.