Theages

Name: Theages
Author: Plato

Ancient Greek with an independent English translation.

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TheagesTheages · 126b–126e

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English Page · Branch 13 of 24

Theages · 126b–126e

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Ancient Greek

p. 20

ΣΩ. Ἀλλὰ παρ’ αὐτοὺς αὖ τοὺς δεινοὺς ὄντας ταῦτα, καὶ οἷς εἰσίν τε ἵπποι καὶ χρῶνται ἑκάστοτε καὶ οἰκείοις καὶ ἀλλοτρίοις πολλοῖς.

ΘΕ. Δῆλον ὅτι.

ΣΩ. Τί δὲ εἰ τὰ ἀκοντιστικὰ σοφὸς ἐβούλου γενέσθαι; οὐ παρὰ τοὺς ἀκοντιστικοὺς ᾤου ἂν ἐλθὼν σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι τούτους, οἷς ἔστιν τε ἀκόντια καὶ πολλοῖς καὶ ἀλλοτρίοις καὶ 126c οἰκείοις ἑκάστοτε χρῶνται ἀκοντίοις;

ΘΕ. Ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.

ΣΩ. Λέγε δή μοι· ἐπεὶ δὲ δὴ τὰ πολιτικὰ βούλει σοφὸς γενέσθαι, οἴει παρ’ ἄλλους τινὰς ἀφικόμενος σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι ἢ τοὺς πολιτικοὺς τούτους, τοὺς αὐτούς τε δεινοὺς ὄντας τὰ πολιτικὰ καὶ χρωμένους ἑκάστοτε τῇ τε αὑτῶν πόλει καὶ ἄλλαις πολλαῖς, καὶ Ἑλληνίσιν προσομιλοῦντας πόλεσιν καὶ βαρβάροις; ἢ δοκεῖς ἄλλοις τισὶν συγγενόμενος σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι ταῦτα ἅπερ οὗτοι, ἀλλ’ οὐκ αὐτοῖς τούτοις;

126dΘΕ. Ἀκήκοα γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὕς σέ φασιν λέγειν τοὺς λόγους, ὅτι τούτων τῶν πολιτικῶν ἀνδρῶν οἱ ὑεῖς οὐδὲν βελτίους εἰσὶν ἢ οἱ τῶν σκυτοτόμων· καί μοι δοκεῖς ἀληθέστατα λέγειν ἐξ ὧν ἐγὼ δύναμαι αἰσθέσθαι. ἀνόητος ἂν οὖν εἴην εἰ οἰοίμην τινὰ τούτων ἐμοὶ μὲν ἂν παραδοῦναι τὴν αὑτοῦ σοφίαν, τὸν δὲ ὑὸν τὸν αὑτοῦ μηδὲν ὠφελῆσαι, εἴ τι οἷός τ’ ἦν εἰς ταῦτα ὠφελεῖν ἄλλον ὁντιναοῦν ἀνθρώπων.

ΣΩ. Τί οὖν ἄν, ὦ βέλτιστε ἀνδρῶν, χρήσαιο σαυτῷ, εἴ σοι ἐπειδὴ γένοιτο ὑὸς τοιαῦτα πράγματα παρέχοι, καὶ φαίη 126e μὲν ἂν ἐπιθυμεῖν ἀγαθὸς γενέσθαι ζωγράφος, καὶ μέμφοιτο σοὶ τῷ πατρὶ ὅτι οὐκ ἐθέλεις ἀναλίσκειν εἰς αὐτὸν τούτων αὐτῶν ἕνεκα ἀργύριον, τοὺς δὲ δημιουργοὺς αὐτοῦ τούτου, τοὺς ζωγράφους, ἀτιμάζοι τε καὶ μὴ βούλοιτο παρ’ αὐτῶν

Theages

p. 21

Soc. But to the very men, in turn, who are clever at this, and who have horses¹ and use them on every occasion, both their own and others’, many of them.

Theag. Clearly.

Soc. And what if you wished to become wise in javelin-throwing? Would you not think that you would become wise by going to those skilled in javelin-throwing, these men who have javelins, and who 126c use javelins on every occasion, many of them, both others’ and their own?

Theag. I think so.

Soc. Tell me, then: since you wish to become wise in the affairs of the city, do you think that you will become wise by going to any others than these statesmen, who are themselves clever at the affairs of the city, and who use on every occasion both their own city and many others, and have dealings with cities both Greek and barbarian? Or do you think that by coming to be with some others you will become wise in the things these men are wise in, and not with these themselves?

Theag. 126d For I have heard, Socrates, the arguments they say you make: that the sons of these statesmen are no better than the sons of the shoemakers;² and you seem to me to speak most truly, from what I am able to perceive. So I would be senseless if I thought that any of these would hand over his own wisdom to me, but would not benefit his own son at all, if he were at all able to benefit any other man whatever in these things.

Soc. Then what would you do with yourself, most excellent of men, if, once a son was born to you, he made such trouble for you, and said 126e that he desired to become a good painter, and blamed you, his father, because you are not willing to spend money on him for these very things, while the craftsmen of this very thing, the painters, he slighted and did not wish

About This Reading Edition

Demodocus asks Socrates how his son Theages can become wise. Their conversation turns from political ambition and the sophists to Socrates’ divine sign and the uncertain benefits of keeping his company. This complete edition presents the dialogue, 121a–131a, across seventeen Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and thirty-nine translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.

Historical Text and Translation

The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume III (Oxford, 1903; second impression, corrected, 1909), printed at Oxford by Horace Hart. The supplied edition checks the Perseus Digital Library transcription against the photographed pages and preserves Burnet’s speaker names, verse quotations, editorial signs, and critical apparatus. The companion PDF retains the printed lineation and complete page layout.

About Diotimos Editions

Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Each English dialogue page translates the Greek page opposite it, with Stephanus references in the margin and all thirty-nine translator’s notes attached to their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it.

Rights

The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.