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Plato

Theages

Name: Theages
Author: Plato

Ancient Greek with an independent English translation.

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TheagesTheages · 124d–125b

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Theages · 124d–125b

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Ancient Greek

p. 14

ΣΩ. Τί δὲ Ἀρχέλαον τὸν Περδίκκου, τὸν νεωστὶ τοῦτον ἄρχοντα ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ; οὐ τῶν αὐτῶν ἡγῇ τούτων ἄρχειν;

ΘΕ. Ἔγωγε.

ΣΩ. Ἱππίαν δὲ τὸν Πεισιστράτου ἐν τῇδε τῇ πόλει ἄρξαντα τίνων οἴει ἄρξαι; οὐ τούτων;

ΘΕ. Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;

ΣΩ. Εἴποις ἂν οὖν μοι τίνα ἐπωνυμίαν ἔχει Βάκις τε καὶ Σίβυλλα καὶ ὁ ἡμεδαπὸς Ἀμφίλυτος;

ΘΕ. Τίνα γὰρ ἄλλην, ὦ Σώκρατες, πλήν γε χρησμῳδοί;

124eΣΩ. Ὀρθῶς λέγεις. ἀλλὰ καὶ τούσδε μοι οὕτω πειρῶ ἀποκρίνασθαι, τίνα ἐπωνυμίαν ἔχει Ἱππίας καὶ Περίανδρος διὰ τὴν αὐτὴν ἀρχήν;

ΘΕ. Οἶμαι μὲν τύραννοι· τί γὰρ ἄλλο;

ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ὅστις ἐπιθυμεῖ τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει συμπάντων ἄρχειν, τῆς αὐτῆς ἀρχῆς τούτοις ἐπιθυμεῖ, τυραννικῆς, καὶ τύραννος εἶναι;

ΘΕ. Φαίνεται.

ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ταύτης ἐπιθυμεῖν σὺ φῄς;

ΘΕ. Ἔοικέν γε ἐξ ὧν ἐγὼ εἶπον.

ΣΩ. Ὦ μιαρέ, τυραννεῖν ἄρα ἡμῶν ἐπιθυμῶν πάλαι 125a ἐμέμφου τῷ πατρὶ ὅτι σε οὐκ ἔπεμπεν εἰς [διδασκάλου] τυραννοδιδασκάλου τινός; καὶ σύ, ὦ Δημόδοκε, οὐκ αἰσχύνῃ πάλαι εἰδὼς οὗ ἐπιθυμεῖ οὗτος, καὶ ἔχων ὅθι πέμψας αὐτὸν δημιουργὸν ἂν ἐποίησας τῆς σοφίας ἧς ἐπιθυμεῖ, ἔπειτα φθονεῖς τε αὐτῷ καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλεις πέμπειν; ἀλλὰ νῦν—ὁρᾷς;— ἐπειδὴ ἐναντίον ἐμοῦ κατείρηκέ σου, κοινῇ βουλευώμεθα ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ ἐς τίνος ἂν αὐτὸν πέμποιμεν καὶ διὰ τὴν τίνος συνουσίαν σοφὸς ἂν γένοιτο τύραννος;

125bΔΗ. Ναὶ μὰ Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, βουλευώμεθα δῆτα, ὡς δοκεῖ γέ μοι βουλῆς δεῖν περὶ τούτου οὐ φαύλης.

Theages

p. 15

Soc. And Archelaus son of Perdiccas, this new ruler in Macedonia: do you not think he rules these same people?¹

Theag. I do.

Soc. And Hippias son of Pisistratus, who ruled in this city: whom do you think he ruled? Not these?²

Theag. Of course.

Soc. Could you tell me, then, what title Bakis and the Sibyl and our own Amphilytus have?³

Theag. What other, Socrates, but oracle-singers?

Soc. 124e Rightly said. Then try to answer me in the same way about these men too: what title do Hippias and Periander have on account of the same rule?

Theag. Tyrants, I think; what else?

Soc. Then whoever desires to rule all the men in the city together desires the same rule as these, tyrannical rule, and to be a tyrant?

Theag. It appears so.

Soc. Then this is what you say you desire?

Theag. It seems so, at any rate, from what I said.

Soc. You rascal! So it was in desiring to be our tyrant that 125a you have long been blaming your father because he did not send you to the house of some tyrant-teacher?⁴ And you, Demodocus, are you not ashamed? You have long known what he desires, and you have somewhere you could have sent him and so made him a craftsman of the wisdom he desires, and then you begrudge it him and are not willing to send him? But now—do you see?—since he has spoken out against you before me, shall we deliberate together, you and I, to whose house we should send him, and by being with whom he would become a wise tyrant?⁵

Dem. 125b Yes, by Zeus, Socrates, let us deliberate indeed; for it seems to me, at least, that this needs no trivial counsel.

1.Archelaus became king of Macedon about 413 BC; in the Gorgias (470d–471d) Polus makes him the example of a happy wrongdoer, and the Alcibiades II tells of his murder (141d–e).

2.Hippias succeeded his father Pisistratus as tyrant of Athens in 527 BC and was driven out in 510.

3.Bakis was a legendary Boeotian seer whose oracles were collected and quoted (Herodotus 8.20, 8.77; Aristophanes, Knights 123–124); the Sibyl, a prophetess, is named already by Heraclitus (fragment B92). Amphilytus foretold Pisistratus’ victory; Herodotus calls him an Acarnanian (1.62.4).

4.Tyrannodidaskalos, “tyrant-teacher”, perhaps made for the joke; it recurs in Cassius Dio (59.24). Burnet brackets “teacher” before it, after Schleiermacher.

5.“To whose house” (es tinos) is Bekker’s; B and T have estin hoi, which does not answer to “by being with whom”.

About This Reading Edition

Demodocus asks Socrates how his son Theages can become wise. Their conversation turns from political ambition and the sophists to Socrates’ divine sign and the uncertain benefits of keeping his company. This complete edition presents the dialogue, 121a–131a, across seventeen Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and thirty-nine translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.

Historical Text and Translation

The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume III (Oxford, 1903; second impression, corrected, 1909), printed at Oxford by Horace Hart. The supplied edition checks the Perseus Digital Library transcription against the photographed pages and preserves Burnet’s speaker names, verse quotations, editorial signs, and critical apparatus. The companion PDF retains the printed lineation and complete page layout.

About Diotimos Editions

Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Each English dialogue page translates the Greek page opposite it, with Stephanus references in the margin and all thirty-nine translator’s notes attached to their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it.

Rights

The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.