The Lovers

Name: The Lovers
Author: Plato

Ancient Greek with an independent English translation.

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The LoversThe Lovers · 132c–133b

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Ancient Greek Page · Branch 5 of 20

The Lovers · 132c–133b

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Ancient Greek

p. 4

κρινομένου, Οὐ πρὸς σοῦ γε, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ποιεῖς τὸ καὶ ἀνερέσθαι τοῦτον εἰ αἰσχρὸν ἡγεῖται φιλοσοφίαν εἶναι. ἢ οὐκ οἶσθα τοῦτον ὅτι τραχηλιζόμενος καὶ ἐμπιμπλάμενος καὶ καθεύδων πάντα τὸν βίον διατετέλεκεν; ὥστε σὺ τί αὐτὸν ᾤου ἀποκρινεῖσθαι ἀλλ’ ἢ ὅτι αἰσχρόν ἐστι φιλοσοφία;

132dἮν δὲ οὗτος μὲν τοῖν ἐρασταῖν περὶ μουσικὴν διατετριφώς, ὁ δ’ ἕτερος, ὃν ἐλοιδόρει, περὶ γυμναστικήν. καί μοι ἔδοξε χρῆναι τὸν μὲν ἕτερον ἀφιέναι, τὸν ἐρωτώμενον, ὅτι οὐδ’ αὐτὸς προσεποιεῖτο περὶ λόγων ἔμπειρος εἶναι ἀλλὰ περὶ ἔργων, τὸν δὲ σοφώτερον προσποιούμενον εἶναι διερωτῆσαι, ἵνα καὶ εἴ τι δυναίμην παρ’ αὐτοῦ ὠφεληθείην. εἶπον οὖν ὅτι Εἰς κοινὸν μὲν τὸ ἐρώτημα ἠρόμην· εἰ δὲ σὺ οἴει τοῦδε κάλλιον ἂν ἀποκρίνασθαι, σὲ ἐρωτῶ τὸ αὐτὸ ὅπερ καὶ τοῦτον, εἰ δοκεῖ σοι τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν καλὸν εἶναι ἢ οὔ.

133aΣχεδὸν οὖν ταῦτα λεγόντων ἡμῶν ἐπακούσαντε τὼ μειρακίω ἐσιγησάτην, καὶ αὐτὼ παυσαμένω τῆς ἔριδος ἡμῶν ἀκροαταὶ ἐγενέσθην. καὶ ὅτι μὲν οἱ ἐρασταὶ ἔπαθον οὐκ οἶδα, αὐτὸς δ’ οὖν ἐξεπλάγην· ἀεὶ γάρ ποτε ὑπὸ τῶν νέων τε καὶ καλῶν ἐκπλήττομαι. ἐδόκει μέντοι μοι καὶ ὁ ἕτερος οὐχ ἧττον ἐμοῦ ἀγωνιᾶν· οὐ μὴν ἀλλ’ ἀπεκρίνατό γέ μοι καὶ μάλα φιλοτίμως. Ὁπότε γάρ τοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, 133b τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν αἰσχρὸν ἡγησαίμην εἶναι, οὐδ’ ἂν ἄνθρωπον νομίσαιμι ἐμαυτὸν εἶναι, οὐδ’ ἄλλον τὸν οὕτω διακείμενον, ἐνδεικνύμενος εἰς τὸν ἀντεραστήν, καὶ λέγων μεγάλῃ τῇ φωνῇ, ἵν’ αὐτοῦ κατακούοι τὰ παιδικά.

Καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον, Καλὸν ἄρα δοκεῖ σοι τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν;

Πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.

132c 7.Source editor’s annotationφιλοσοφίαν εἶναι B: εἶναι φιλοσοφίαν T

132c 8.Source editor’s annotationτοῦτον B: αὐτὸν T

132c 9.Source editor’s annotationσὺ τί αὐτὸν ᾤου B: ὥστε τί σοι οἴει αὐτὸν TW

132c 10.Source editor’s annotationἀποκρινεῖσθαι B: ἀποκρίνεσθαι TW

132c 10.Source editor’s annotationἀλλ’ ἢ B: ἄλλο ἢ TW

132d 3.Source editor’s annotationτὸν ἐρωτώμενον Schleiermacher (quem prius interrogaveram Ficinus): τὸν ἐρόμενον b: τὸν ἐρώμενον BT

132d 5.Source editor’s annotationσοφώτερον T: σοφώτατον B

132d 7.Source editor’s annotationοὖν T: γ’ οὖν B

132d 8.Source editor’s annotationἂν ἀποκρίνασθαι Laur. lxxxv. 14: ἂν ἀποκρίνεσθαι T: ἀποκρίνεσθαι B: ἀποκρινεῖσθαι b

133a 4.Source editor’s annotationδ’ οὖν T: γ’ οὖν B

133b 3.Source editor’s annotationμεγάλῃ BW: μέγα T

133b 5.Source editor’s annotationσοι TW: σοι οἷόν τ’ εἶναι B

The Lovers

p. 5

answering, said, “It is not like you, Socrates, even to ask this fellow whether he thinks philosophy is shameful. Or don’t you know that he has spent his whole life having his neck twisted, stuffing himself and sleeping?¹ So what did you think he would answer, except that philosophy is shameful?”

132dNow of the two lovers this one had spent his time on music, and the other, the one he was abusing, on gymnastics.² And I thought I ought to let the one go, the one I had questioned, since he himself did not even lay claim to being experienced in words, but in deeds, and to question closely the one who laid claim to being wiser, so that I might also, if I could in any way, be benefited by him.³ So I said, “I put my question to the company; but if you think you would answer more finely than he, I ask you the same thing as I asked him: whether you think philosophizing is fine or not.”

133aAs we were saying something like this, then, the two lads overheard us and fell silent, and, stopping their quarrel, became our listeners themselves. How the lovers were affected I don’t know, but I, for one, was dazzled; for I am always dazzled by the young and beautiful.⁴ It seemed to me, though, that the other too was no less on edge than I;⁵ all the same, he did answer me, and very ambitiously.

“Why, Socrates,” he said, “if ever 133b I thought philosophizing shameful, I would not even consider myself a man, nor anyone else who was so disposed”—pointing at his rival lover as he said it, and speaking in a loud voice, so that his beloved should hear him.

And I said, “So you think philosophizing is fine?”

“Certainly,” he said.

About This Reading Edition

Socrates recalls a debate between two rival lovers about what philosophy is: much learning, a knowledge of many crafts, or the knowledge by which we know ourselves and judge rightly. This complete edition presents the dialogue, 132a–139a, across thirteen Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and thirty translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.

Discussion Questions

Historical Text and Translation

The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume II (Oxford, 1901; second edition, 1910), in a later Oxford impression printed by John Johnson. The supplied edition checks the Perseus Digital Library transcription against the printed pages and retains Burnet’s paragraphing, verse, editorial signs, and critical apparatus. The supplied PDF preserves the complete printed layout.

About Diotimos Editions

Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Socrates’ narration, the rival lovers’ exchanges, and the distinctions between learning, craft, usefulness, justice, and temperance remain aligned with the Greek. All thirty translator’s notes accompany their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it.

Rights

The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.