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The Lovers · 135e–136c
Ancient Greek
p. 14135eἎρ’ ἐννοῶ, ἔφην, οἷον λέγεις τὸν φιλόσοφον ἄνδρα; δοκεῖς γάρ μοι λέγειν οἷοι ἐν τῇ ἀγωνίᾳ εἰσὶν οἱ πένταθλοι πρὸς τοὺς δρομέας ἢ τοὺς παλαιστάς. καὶ γὰρ ἐκεῖνοι τούτων μὲν λείπονται κατὰ τὰ τούτων ἆθλα καὶ δεύτεροί εἰσι πρὸς τούτους, τῶν δ’ ἄλλων ἀθλητῶν πρῶτοι καὶ νικῶσιν αὐτούς. τάχ’ ἂν ἴσως τοιοῦτόν τι λέγοις καὶ τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν ἀπεργάζεσθαι τοὺς ἐπιτηδεύοντας τοῦτο τὸ ἐπιτήδευμα· τῶν μὲν 136a πρώτων εἰς σύνεσιν περὶ τὰς τέχνας ἐλλείπεσθαι, τὰ δευτερεῖα δ’ ἔχοντας τῶν ἄλλων περιεῖναι, καὶ οὕτως γίγνεσθαι περὶ πάντα ὕπακρόν τινα ἄνδρα τὸν πεφιλοσοφηκότα· τοιοῦτόν τινά μοι δοκεῖς ἐνδείκνυσθαι.
Καλῶς γέ μοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, φαίνῃ ὑπολαμβάνειν τὰ περὶ τοῦ φιλοσόφου, ἀπεικάσας αὐτὸν τῷ πεντάθλῳ. ἔστιν γὰρ ἀτεχνῶς τοιοῦτος οἷος μὴ δουλεύειν μηδενὶ πράγματι, μηδ’ εἰς τὴν ἀκρίβειαν μηδὲν διαπεπονηκέναι, ὥστε διὰ τὴν τοῦ ἑνὸς τούτου ἐπιμέλειαν τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων 136b ἀπολελεῖφθαι, ὥσπερ οἱ δημιουργοί, ἀλλὰ πάντων μετρίως ἐφῆφθαι.
Μετὰ ταύτην δὴ τὴν ἀπόκρισιν ἐγὼ προθυμούμενος σαφῶς εἰδέναι ὅτι λέγοι, ἐπυνθανόμην αὐτοῦ τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς πότερον χρησίμους ἢ ἀχρήστους εἶναι ὑπολαμβάνοι.
Χρησίμους δήπου, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη.
Ἆρ’ οὖν, εἴπερ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ χρήσιμοι, οἱ πονηροὶ ἄχρηστοι;
Ὡμολόγει.
Τί δέ; τοὺς φιλοσόφους ἄνδρας χρησίμους ἡγῇ ἢ οὔ;
136cὉ δὲ ὡμολόγει χρησίμους, καὶ πρός γε ἔφη χρησιμωτάτους εἶναι ἡγεῖσθαι.
Φέρε δὴ γνῶμεν, εἰ σὺ ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ποῦ καὶ χρήσιμοι
The Lovers
p. 15135e“Do I take in,” I said, “what sort of man you mean the philosopher to be? For it seems to me that you mean what the pentathletes are in a contest, compared with racers or wrestlers. For indeed they fall short of these in these men’s own events, and are second to them, but are first among the other athletes and beat them.1 Perhaps you might mean that philosophizing too makes those who pursue this pursuit something of this kind: 136a that they fall short of the first in the understanding of the crafts, but holding the second prizes they surpass the others; and so the man who has philosophized becomes a kind of runner-up in everything.2 It is some such man that you seem to me to be pointing to.”
“You appear to me, Socrates,” he said, “to take the philosopher’s case finely indeed, likening him to the pentathlete. For he is simply the sort not to be a slave to any one thing, nor to have labored at anything to the point of precision, so as to 136b be left behind in all the others through his care for this one, as the craftsmen are, but to have laid hold of all of them in moderation.”3
After this answer, then, being keen to know clearly what he was saying, I asked him whether he took the good to be useful or useless.
“Useful, of course, Socrates,” he said.
“Then if the good are useful, are the base useless?”
He agreed.
“Well? Do you think philosophers are useful or not?”
136cHe agreed they were useful, and indeed said besides that he thought them most useful.
“Come, then, let us find out, if you are telling the truth: where are they actually useful
Socrates
Reading The Lovers · The Lovers · 135e–136c
Ask about a concept, passage, contradiction, or connection.
Socrates will begin with this book and its sources.About This Reading Edition
Socrates recalls a debate between two rival lovers about what philosophy is: much learning, a knowledge of many crafts, or the knowledge by which we know ourselves and judge rightly. This complete edition presents the dialogue, 132a–139a, across thirteen Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and thirty translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.
Historical Text and Translation
The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume II (Oxford, 1901; second edition, 1910), in a later Oxford impression printed by John Johnson. The supplied edition checks the Perseus Digital Library transcription against the printed pages and retains Burnet’s paragraphing, verse, editorial signs, and critical apparatus. The supplied PDF preserves the complete printed layout.
About Diotimos Editions
Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Socrates’ narration, the rival lovers’ exchanges, and the distinctions between learning, craft, usefulness, justice, and temperance remain aligned with the Greek. All thirty translator’s notes accompany their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it.
Rights
The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.
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