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Plato

The Lovers

Ancient Greek with an independent English translation.

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The LoversThe Lovers · 133b–133e

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The Lovers · 133b–133e

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Ancient Greek

p. 6

Τί οὖν, ἐγὼ ἔφην· ἦ δοκεῖ σοι οἷόν τ’ εἶναι εἰδέναι πρᾶγμα ὁτιοῦν εἴτε καλὸν εἴτε αἰσχρόν ἐστιν, ὃ μὴ εἰδείη τις τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅτι ἔστιν;

Οὐκ ἔφη.

133cΟἶσθ’ ἄρα, ἦν δ’ ἐγώ, ὅτι ἔστιν τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν;

Πάνυ γε, ἔφη.

Τί οὖν ἔστιν; ἔφην ἐγώ.

Τί δ’ ἄλλο γε ἢ κατὰ τὸ Σόλωνος; Σόλων γάρ που εἶπε—

  γηράσκω δ’ αἰεὶ πολλὰ διδασκόμενος·

καὶ ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ οὕτως ἀεὶ χρῆναι ἕν γέ τι μανθάνειν τὸν μέλλοντα φιλοσοφήσειν, καὶ νεώτερον ὄντα καὶ πρεσβύτερον, ἵν’ ὡς πλεῖστα ἐν τῷ βίῳ μάθῃ. καί μοι τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ἔδοξε τὶ εἰπεῖν, ἔπειτά πως ἐννοήσας ἠρόμην αὐτὸν εἰ τὴν φιλοσοφίαν πολυμαθίαν ἡγοῖτο.

133dΚἀκεῖνος, Πάνυ, ἔφη.

Ἡγῇ δὲ δὴ καλὸν εἶναι μόνον τὴν φιλοσοφίαν ἢ καὶ ἀγαθόν; ἦν δ’ ἐγώ.

Καὶ ἀγαθόν, ἔφη, πάνυ.

Πότερον οὖν ἐν φιλοσοφίᾳ τι τοῦτο ἴδιον ἐνορᾷς, ἢ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις οὕτω σοι δοκεῖ ἔχειν; οἷον φιλογυμναστίαν οὐ μόνον ἡγῇ καλὸν εἶναι, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀγαθόν; ἢ οὔ;

Ὁ δὲ καὶ μάλα εἰρωνικῶς εἶπε δύο· Πρὸς μὲν τόνδε μοι εἰρήσθω ὅτι οὐδέτερα· πρὸς μέντοι σέ, ὦ Σώκρατες, 133e ὁμολογῶ καὶ καλὸν εἶναι καὶ ἀγαθόν· ἡγοῦμαι γὰρ ὀρθῶς.

Ἠρώτησα οὖν ἐγώ, Ἆρ’ οὖν καὶ ἐν τοῖς γυμνασίοις τὴν πολυπονίαν φιλογυμναστίαν ἡγῇ εἶναι;

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The Lovers

p. 7

“What, then?” I said. “Do you think it is possible to know of anything whatever whether it is fine or shameful, if one did not know at all what it is?”

He said not.

133c“Then you know,” said I, “what philosophizing is?”

“Certainly,” he said.

“What is it, then?” said I.

“What else but what Solon says? For Solon, I believe, said—

I grow old always learning many things;

and it seems to me too that the man who is going to philosophize must in this way always be learning one thing at least, both when he is younger and when he is older, so as to learn as much as possible in his life.”1

At first he seemed to me to be saying something; then somehow, thinking it over, I asked him whether he thought philosophy was much learning.2

133dAnd he said, “Entirely.”

“And do you think philosophy is only fine, or good as well?” said I.

“Good as well,” he said, “entirely.”

“Then is this something peculiar that you see in philosophy, or does it seem to you to be so in the other things too? For instance, do you think the love of exercise is not only fine, but good as well? Or not?”

And he, very ironically, gave two answers: “To this fellow let my answer be that it is neither; to you, however, Socrates, 133e I agree that it is both fine and good; for I think rightly.”3

So I asked, “Then in exercises too, do you think much labor is the love of exercise?”

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About This Reading Edition

Socrates recalls a debate between two rival lovers about what philosophy is: much learning, a knowledge of many crafts, or the knowledge by which we know ourselves and judge rightly. This complete edition presents the dialogue, 132a–139a, across thirteen Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and thirty translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.

Discussion Questions

Historical Text and Translation

The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume II (Oxford, 1901; second edition, 1910), in a later Oxford impression printed by John Johnson. The supplied edition checks the Perseus Digital Library transcription against the printed pages and retains Burnet’s paragraphing, verse, editorial signs, and critical apparatus. The supplied PDF preserves the complete printed layout.

About Diotimos Editions

Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Socrates’ narration, the rival lovers’ exchanges, and the distinctions between learning, craft, usefulness, justice, and temperance remain aligned with the Greek. All thirty translator’s notes accompany their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it.

Rights

The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.