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Book I Chapter 20 · I.20.8.2–I.20.8.3
Ancient Greek
p. 4868 Πλάτωνος Τίμαιος · 2
καὶ πάλιν ἀέρα ξυνιόντα καὶ πυκνούμενον νέφος καὶ ὁμίχλην, ἐκ δὲ τούτων ἔτι μᾶλλον συμπιλουμένων ῥέον ὕδωρ, ἐξ ὕδατος δὲ γῆν καὶ λίθους αὖθις, κύκλον τε οὕτω διαδιδόντα εἰς ἄλληλα, ὡς φαίνεται, τὴν γένεσιν. Οὕτω δὴ τούτων οὐδέποτε τῶν αὐτῶν ἑκάστων φανταζομένων, ποῖον αὐτῶν ὡς ὂν ὁτιοῦν τοῦτο καὶ οὐκ ἄλλο παγίως διισχυριζόμενος οὐκ αἰσχυνεῖταί τις ἑαυτόν; οὐκ ἔστιν·
8 Πλάτωνος Τίμαιος · 3
ἀλλ’ ἀσφαλέστατα μακρῷ περὶ τούτων τιθεμένους ὧδε λέγειν· ἀεὶ ὃ καθορῶμεν ἄλλοτε ἄλλῃ γιγνόμενον, ὡς πῦρ, μὴ τοῦτο ἀλλὰ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἑκάστοτε προσαγορεύειν πῦρ, μηδὲ ὕδωρ τοῦτο ἀλλὰ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἀεί· μηδὲ ἄλλο ποτέ μηδὲν ὡς τιν’ ἔχον βεβαιότητα, ὅσα δεικνύντες τῷ ῥήματι τῷ ‘τόδε’ καὶ ‘τοῦτο’ προσχρώμενοι δηλοῦν ἡγούμεθά τι· φεύγει γὰρ οὐχ ὑπομένον τὴν τοῦ ‘τόδε’ καὶ ‘τοῦτο’ καὶ τὴν τῷδε καὶ πᾶσαν ὅση μόνιμα ὡς ὄντα αὐτὰ ἐνδείκνυται φάσις.
Stobaeus, Volume I: Book I Chapter 20
p. 4878 Plato: No stable “this”
And again we see air coming together and thickening into cloud and mist, and from these, as they are still more compressed, flowing water, and from water earth and stones once more; so, as it appears, they pass generation on to one another in a circle. Since each of these never presents itself as the same, which of them could anyone firmly insist is this particular thing and not something else without putting himself to shame? There is none.609
8 Plato: “This” and “such”
By far the safest course is to state the matter as follows: whatever we continually observe coming to be now in one way, now in another, as with fire, we should on each occasion call “such” fire, rather than “this”; and water likewise always “such,” rather than “this.” Nor should we ever speak of anything else of this kind as possessing stability, when we point to it with the words “this here” and “this,” thinking that we are indicating something. For it slips away, refusing to abide the expression “this here,” “this,” “to this,” or any expression that indicates these things as stable existences.610
Socrates
Reading Stobaeus, Volume I · Book I Chapter 20 · I.20.8.2–I.20.8.3
Ask about a concept, passage, contradiction, or connection.
Socrates will begin with this book and its sources.About This Reading Edition
Stobaeus gathered Greek philosophy and poetry for his son Septimius. Volume I presents the dedication testimony, On Arithmetic, Book I through chapter 60, and the ancient contents of all four books. This complete bilingual edition includes an introduction and 2,117 explanatory notes.
Historical Text and Translation
The Greek follows Curt Wachsmuth’s 1884 Volume I, checked against the supplied scan. Gaps, lost-chapter headings, and uncertain attributions remain visible. Chapter 2 includes a labeled proposed reconstruction. The appendix outlines Books I–IV; the full texts of Books II–IV are outside this volume. Reader pages preserve the companion PDF’s numbering.
About Diotimos Editions
Diotimos Editions prepared this independent English translation directly from the Greek. Prose and verse retain their distinct forms, with mixed passages preserving their quoted verse. Every passage is paired with its Greek and identified by the edition’s reference number. All 2,117 notes remain linked to their passages, with continuous numbering across the introduction and text.
Rights
Stobaeus’s ancient Greek work and Wachsmuth’s 1884 printing are in the public domain. The independent English translation, introduction, and explanatory notes are © 2026 Diotimos Editions. The complete supplied edition is available as PDF, EPUB, Word, and Markdown. The PDF retains the fixed page locations used by the companion lexicon.