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Alcibiades II · 149c–150b
Ancient Greek
p. 38Εὑρήσεις δὲ καὶ παρ’ Ὁμήρῳ ἕτερα παραπλήσια τούτοις 149d εἰρημένα. φησὶν γὰρ τοὺς Τρῶας ἔπαυλιν ποιουμένους
ἔρδειν ἀθανάτοισι τεληέσσας ἑκατόμβας·τὴν δὲ κνῖσαν ἐκ τοῦ πεδίου τοὺς ἀνέμους φέρειν οὐρανὸν εἴσω
ἡδεῖαν· τῆς δ’ οὔ τι θεοὺς μάκαρας δατέεσθαι,οὐδ’ ἐθέλειν· μάλα γάρ σφιν ἀπήχθετο Ἴλιος ἱρὴ149eκαὶ Πρίαμος καὶ λαὸς ἐυμμελίω Πριάμοιο·ὥστε οὐδὲν αὐτοῖς ἦν προύργου θύειν τε καὶ δῶρα τελεῖν μάτην, θεοῖς ἀπηχθημένους. οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι τοιοῦτόν ἐστι τὸ τῶν θεῶν ὥστε ὑπὸ δώρων παράγεσθαι οἷον κακὸν τοκιστήν· ἀλλὰ καὶ ἡμεῖς εὐήθη λόγον λέγομεν, ἀξιοῦντες Λακεδαιμονίων ταύτῃ περιεῖναι. καὶ γὰρ ἂν δεινὸν εἴη εἰ πρὸς τὰ δῶρα καὶ τὰς θυσίας ἀποβλέπουσιν ἡμῶν οἱ θεοὶ ἀλλὰ μὴ πρὸς τὴν ψυχήν, ἄν τις ὅσιος καὶ δίκαιος ὢν 150a τυγχάνῃ. πολλῷ γε μᾶλλον οἶμαι ἢ πρὸς τὰς πολυτελεῖς ταύτας πομπάς τε καὶ θυσίας, ἃς οὐδὲν κωλύει πολλὰ μὲν εἰς θεούς, πολλὰ δ’ εἰς ἀνθρώπους ἡμαρτηκότας καὶ ἰδιώτην καὶ πόλιν ἔχειν ἀν’ ἕκαστον ἔτος τελεῖν· οἱ δέ, ἅτε οὐ δωροδόκοι ὄντες, καταφρονοῦσιν ἁπάντων τούτων, ὥς φησιν ὁ θεὸς καὶ θεῶν προφήτης. κινδυνεύει γοῦν καὶ παρὰ θεοῖς καὶ παρ’ ἀνθρώποις τοῖς νοῦν ἔχουσι δικαιοσύνη τε 150b καὶ φρόνησις διαφερόντως τετιμῆσθαι· φρόνιμοι δὲ καὶ δίκαιοι οὐκ ἄλλοι τινές εἰσιν [ἢ] τῶν εἰδότων ἃ δεῖ πράττειν καὶ λέγειν καὶ πρὸς θεοὺς καὶ πρὸς ἀνθρώπους. βουλοίμην δ’ ἂν καὶ σοῦ πυθέσθαι ὅτι ποτ’ ἐν νῷ ἔχεις πρὸς ταῦτα.
ΑΛ. Ἀλλ’ ἐμοὶ μέν, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἄλλῃ πῃ δοκεῖ ἢ ᾗπερ σοί τε καὶ τῷ θεῷ· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἂν εἰκὸς εἴη ἀντίψηφον ἐμὲ τῷ θεῷ γενέσθαι.
Alcibiades II
p. 39And you will find other things like these 149d said in Homer too. For he says that the Trojans, making their camp,
offered the immortals perfect hecatombs,
and that “the winds carried the savor from the plain into the heaven”,
sweet; but the blessed gods took no share of it, nor were willing to; for greatly hateful to them was holy Ilium, 149e and Priam, and the people of Priam of the good ash spear;
so that it was of no use to them to sacrifice and to pay gifts in vain, hated as they were by the gods.1 For I do not think the way of the gods is such as to be led astray by gifts, like a bad moneylender; no, we too are making a simple argument when we claim to surpass the Spartans in this.2 For it would be a dreadful thing if the gods looked to our gifts and sacrifices and not to the soul, whether someone 150a is in fact holy and just: much more, I think, than to these costly processions and sacrifices, which nothing prevents a private person and a city alike from being able to pay every year, though they have made many mistakes against gods and many against men; but the gods, since they are not takers of gifts, despise all this, as the god and the prophet of the gods say. It looks, at any rate, as though justice 150b and intelligence are held in especial honor both by gods and by men who have sense; and the intelligent and the just are no others than those who know what they must do and say, both toward gods and toward men. I should like to find out from you too what on earth you have in your mind to set against this.
Alc. Well, Socrates, to me it seems no other way than it does to you and to the god; for it would not be fitting for me to cast my vote against the god.
Socrates
Reading Alcibiades II · Alcibiades II · 149c–150b
Ask about a concept, passage, contradiction, or connection.
Socrates will begin with this book and its sources.About This Reading Edition
Socrates and Alcibiades examine prayer, ignorance, and the knowledge of what is best. Their inquiry asks whether receiving what we desire can harm us when we do not know what is good. This complete revised edition presents the dialogue, 138a–151c, across twenty-one Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.
Historical Text and Translation
The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume II (Oxford, 1901), in a later Oxford impression printed by John Johnson and published by Humphrey Milford. The words were taken from the Perseus Digital Library transcription and checked against the supplied printed pages. Burnet’s lineation, verse quotations, and critical apparatus are retained. The supplied PDF preserves the complete printed layout.
About Diotimos Editions
Diotimos Editions prepared and revised this independent English translation directly from the Greek, preserving the argument’s distinctions and the vocabulary of prayer and ritual. Each English dialogue page translates the Greek page opposite it. Translator’s notes accompany their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it. Introductory and concluding matter reflows for the screen.
Rights
The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.