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Ancient Greek Page · Branch 16 of 28
Alcibiades II · 145d–146b
Ancient Greek
p. 26δὲ κατ’ αὐλητικὴν αὐλητικόν, καὶ τἆλλα δήπου ἀνὰ λόγον τούτοις· ἢ ἄλλως πως;
ΑΛ. Οὔκ, ἀλλ’ οὕτως.
ΣΩ. Δοκεῖ οὖν σοι ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι τὸν περὶ τούτων τι ἐπιστήμονα ὄντα ἄρα καὶ ἄνδρα φρόνιμον εἶναι, ἢ πολλοῦ 145e φήσομεν ἐνδεῖν;
ΑΛ. Πολλοῦ μέντοι νὴ Δία.
ΣΩ. Ποίαν οὖν οἴει πολιτείαν εἶναι τοξοτῶν τε ἀγαθῶν καὶ αὐλητῶν, ἔτι δὲ καὶ ἀθλητῶν τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων τεχνιτῶν, ἀναμεμειγμένων δ’ ἐν τούτοις οὓς ἄρτι εἰρήκαμεν τῶν τε αὐτὸ τὸ πολεμεῖν εἰδότων καὶ αὐτὸ τὸ ἀποκτεινύναι, πρὸς δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν ῥητορικῶν πολιτικὸν φύσημα φυσώντων, ἁπάντων δὲ τούτων ὄντων ἄνευ τῆς τοῦ βελτίστου ἐπιστήμης καὶ τοῦ εἰδότος, ὁπότε βέλτιον ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ τούτων 146a χρῆσθαι καὶ πρὸς τίνα;
ΑΛ. Φαύλην τινὰ ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ. Φαίης γε ἂν οἶμαι ὁπόταν ὁρῴης ἕνα ἕκαστον αὐτῶν φιλοτιμούμενόν τε καὶ νέμοντα τὸ πλεῖστον τῆς πολιτείας
τούτῳ μέρος, ἵν’ αὐτὸς αὑτοῦ τυγχάνει κράτιστος ὤν·λέγω δὲ τὸ κατ’ αὐτὴν τὴν τέχνην βέλτιστον γιγνόμενον· τοῦ δὲ τῇ πόλει τε καὶ αὐτὸν αὑτῷ βελτίστου ὄντος τὰ πολλὰ διημαρτηκότα, ἅτε οἶμαι ἄνευ νοῦ δόξῃ πεπιστευκότα. 146b οὕτως δὲ τούτων ἐχόντων, ἆρα οὐκ ἂν ὀρθῶς λέγοιμεν φάντες πολλῆς ταραχῆς τε καὶ ἀνομίας μεστὴν εἶναι τὴν τοιαύτην πολιτείαν;
Alcibiades II
p. 27in flute-playing a flute-player, and the rest, surely, in proportion to these; or is it somehow otherwise?
Alc. No, it is so.
Soc. Does it seem necessary to you, then, that the one who has knowledge about some one of these is also, it follows, an intelligent man, or 145e shall we say he falls far short of it?
Alc. Far short indeed, by Zeus.
Soc. What sort of commonwealth, then, do you think it would be, one of good archers and flute-players, and of athletes besides and the other craftsmen, and, mixed in among these, those we spoke of just now, who know waging war itself and killing itself, and besides these men of rhetoric blowing a political blast, but all of these being without the knowledge of the best and without the one who knows when it is better 146a to use each one of these, and in relation to whom?1
Alc. A sorry one, I think, Socrates.
Soc. You would say so, I think, when you saw each one of them striving for honor and assigning the largest “part” of the commonwealth “to that, in which he himself is in fact at his strongest”—I mean what turns out best according to the craft itself—while he has in most things missed what is best for the city and for himself, since, I think, he has trusted opinion without sense.2 146b This being so, would we not be right to say that such a commonwealth is full of great confusion and lawlessness?
Socrates
Reading Alcibiades II · Alcibiades II · 145d–146b
Ask about a concept, passage, contradiction, or connection.
Socrates will begin with this book and its sources.About This Reading Edition
Socrates and Alcibiades examine prayer, ignorance, and the knowledge of what is best. Their inquiry asks whether receiving what we desire can harm us when we do not know what is good. This complete revised edition presents the dialogue, 138a–151c, across twenty-one Greek–English page pairs, with an introduction, Key Words of the Dialogue, an outline, glossary, critical apparatus, and translator’s notes. The dialogue is transmitted among Plato’s works; its authorship remains disputed.
Historical Text and Translation
The Greek follows John Burnet’s Platonis Opera, volume II (Oxford, 1901), in a later Oxford impression printed by John Johnson and published by Humphrey Milford. The words were taken from the Perseus Digital Library transcription and checked against the supplied printed pages. Burnet’s lineation, verse quotations, and critical apparatus are retained. The supplied PDF preserves the complete printed layout.
About Diotimos Editions
Diotimos Editions prepared and revised this independent English translation directly from the Greek, preserving the argument’s distinctions and the vocabulary of prayer and ritual. Each English dialogue page translates the Greek page opposite it. Translator’s notes accompany their passages. The introduction and Key Words of the Dialogue precede the text; the Outline, Editorial Note, Glossary of Key Terms, and Note on this Edition follow it. Introductory and concluding matter reflows for the screen.
Rights
The ancient Greek work and Burnet’s printed edition are in the public domain. The Perseus digital Greek transcription and its modifications are attributed to the Perseus Digital Library, Tufts University, and reused under CC BY-SA 4.0. The independent English translation and Diotimos editorial matter are © 2026 Diotimos Editions.